Curse

Numa Pompilius · Oct 11, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

after having noted your location i notice you are likely on the european servers. having spent a bit of time there i have noticed a tendancy for total lack of communication. lack of players.

Oh bullcrap. There's lots of players in the euro servers, unless you're playing at 4 o'clock in the morning. Even then there's actually quite a lot on.

It's not hard finding a PUG either, certainly not for missions.

The problem being discussed is when you find yourself in a PUG where everyone agrees to actually play the mission, yet someone then decides to run past the mobs.

Epinephrine · Oct 11, 2005, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

And these 2 comments annoy me:
"get our new armour infused"

Right, so I play the game through (R/W), buy Droknar armour (druids) when I get there - did Iron Mines. Later decided to run winter and use frost armour, bought frost armour, but it is un-infused - had to go back in. Then decided I needed a few more masks, as I wanted the option of bonuses to marksmanship or beastmastery, not just to my usual expertise or wilderness: 2 more runs to get masks infused. For flexibility (I play ranger lots of ways) I bought a second full suit of druids and a second full suit of frost; now one suit of druids has all minors and the other all superiors; same is true for the frosties - I can thus have whatever +3 bonuses I need by swapping bits around; took 2 more runs to infuse. Did the same for my other two PvE toons that have finished game; they each have at least 2 suits of armour for whatever the conditions/build will be, and have 4 pieces of headgear each. That's a lot of running to get pieces infused. If I ever manage to afford the 15k and fissure armours I might want I'll have to do even more running. Granted, that's only 6 infusions so far for my ranger - better than back when each piece needed to be infused separately, it would've been 20 runs or so. Heck, I still have two uninfused scar patterns for my necro, so I have to go in at least 2 more times.

That's how people arrive needing to get infused for new armour. I have no issue with people playing how they wish, but don't assume people are getting run because they happen to like the ability to change their armour to suit their build.

Charcoal Ann · Oct 11, 2005, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Oh bullcrap. There's lots of players in the euro servers, unless you're playing at 4 o'clock in the morning. Even then there's actually quite a lot on.

It's not hard finding a PUG either, certainly not for missions.

The problem being discussed is when you find yourself in a PUG where everyone agrees to actually play the mission, yet someone then decides to run past the mobs.

except in 1) they didn't agree (OP simply presumed that they were up for fighting because they had invited when i fact they probably just blind invited all the groups in the zone)

and in 2) it could very easily have been a mistake.

3) however the runner was indeed an asshat.

coolsti · Oct 11, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

except in 1) they didn't agree (OP simply presumed that they were up for fighting because they had invited when i fact they probably just blind invited all the groups in the zone)

and in 2) it could very easily have been a mistake.

3) however the runner was indeed an asshat.

Well, as the OP, I agree we were a little hard in case 2 (see my earlier response) but I assure you, for case 1, it was clearly announced and advertised, both while looking for players as well as on the team channel after the players were assembled, that we were not going to run. It could very well be that the player simply ignored all that was being written in the chat box, and there is not much one can do about that. But then who is at fault, and therefore should change their tactics to match the others?

For us, our playing time is as precious to us as any other. We work during the day and have only a few hours at night to play. So just like a runner may complain that he/she doesn't want to waste the time to fight from point A to B, we don't want to waste our precious playing time getting run from A to B. Its all a matter of perspective of what you consider "playing the game". In case 1) we simply did not want to waste time doing an "infusion run", just to have to do it over again fighting with another group. So we left right away when it was obvious that the runner wouldn't stop. I feel sorry for wasting some time of the other 3 party members, but we made it clear that they were welcome to map back with us to try again.

matiasdu · Oct 11, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

Why would anyone even join a group that's going to devote hours
to something that should take 20-25 minutes tops?

Oh, I don't know, could be, maybe (i'm just guessing here), to enjoy playing the game?
I enjoy pve and pvp combat very much, mind you.
I also enjoy running from time to time, in fact i'm pretty much the official guild runner.
But most of the time, I play to kill stuff. I wanna get in there and absolutely annihilate anything and anyone that gets in my way with extreme prejudice and methodical, cold blooded, overwhelming tactical coordination.
Virtual war is my pleasure. For example, thunderhead keep is my favourite mission. If the beacons are lit, of course.
That being said, its not everyone cup of tea.
Sadly, the motivation of most ppl is "go next town, mission, whatever so i can get my next skill, money, armor or whatever". Confusing, most ppl seem to be working instead of playing. I do hope they are having fun somewhere in between.
I know I am.

EAT U ALIVE · Oct 11, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Who cares lol just take a henchie, they are sometimes better and more loyal than any player. And they don't leave!

super dooper · Oct 11, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

the 1st case i'm sure the guy would've left if you continued on without him. (because i'm like.. positive he would've died, if he indeed was the only one that ran)

all but the 3rd seem like they could've been handled better. :x

Sanji · Oct 11, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

It's not as simple to go "If you run certain parts in the game, you're not having any fun." A lot of people have fun in this game on an objective achieving basis. This is the fault of many years of game forcusing so much on rewarding players for completing goals as a replay value mechanic than playing for the sake of playing.

PvE rewards players unlockable skills by reaching specific parts of the game, therefore some players approach it from a very goal-orientated stance as opposed to slogging through every monster in sight. Guild Wars does nothing but support this method of playing by burying skills so deeply in the game.

Many people run and continue to run when it comes to Armor Infusion because it's something they've had to do it multiple times. (especially before the patch changed it to applying it to your current armor set) Armor Infusion and reaching Outposts quickly stop being a rewarding task as much as something that gets in the way and needs to be busted through.

I agree that Pick up Groups suck, and you can't trust them to do things the way you want, no matter how explicitly you state it. This is both the fault of the environment and the fault that you are going against what many people accept as a way playing said mission. That is something that frankly is not viable with a Pick up Group. For instance, if you want to run, there are people who'll want to fight and get pissed. If you want to carefully pull monsters, you'll have a Warrior/Monk run into monster and agro everything.

So yes, I can agree with the frustration demostrated in this thread about how unreliable Pick up Groups can be. But it's not so simple to question if people are having fun or that your way is more fun. Pick up Groups are a crap shoot no matter what you're trying to do. I suggest trying to find a Guild or otherwise beefing up your buddy list if you don't have time to waste with crappy PuGs.

mm00re · Oct 11, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

wow can't wait to see your reaction when you get to thunderhead keep

pyrohex · Oct 11, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

To clear things up for anyone else that might be reading this, I don't believe coolsti has anything against running - just people that play contrary to a clearly stated situation.

Teufel Eldritch · Oct 11, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

If a person or group advertises for a specific type of player or playstyle & someone that doesn't play in the same manner joins said group then the fault does not lay with the those that advertised but with those that willingly joined a group that plays the game differently than them.

I play with a close group of friends. We do very similar things when we play. We specifically advertise for fighting groups, not running ones, & we too often get runners. Our solution is the same as the OP. We either zone back to town or we port out.

Now as for fighting your way thru Iron Mines of Moladune....pffft! It does not take hours & hours. Fighting your way there is actually easier than running, at least with the group I play with. We annihilate everything in our path. Takes at most 30 min to get to the Seer by fighting.

If you want to run, join a running group. If you want to fight, join a fighting group. in the end it comes down to something that simple.

Coolsti, look me up in game. I am more than willing to fight my way thru the game. IGN Teufel Eldritch. Who knows mebbe my friends & your friends can join into one large party & whomp the monsters to hell & back. =)

Sanji · Oct 11, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrohex

To clear things up for anyone else that might be reading this, I don't believe coolsti has anything against running - just people that play contrary to a clearly stated situation.

I know, but I wasn't responding exclusively to the original post, but also to comments said by other posters. The unfortunate fact is that Guild Wars' in game matching service is pretty crude compared to other games due to the district segmenting. I can understand that, though, part of keeping the game's cost down.

While there are plenty of things I didn't like about Final Fantasy XI, one thing I loved was that you can go in an LFG mode enabling anyone on the server to see a list depending on what region they want to look at and level range. On top of that it would be color coded depending on what you wanted to do (IE: XP Grinding, Quests, Missions, Gil Farming, etc) and you could even add a comment. Obviously, a serverwide LFG player search simply wouldn't be viable for Guild Wars unlike Final Fantasy XI but making group intents more idiot proof by virtue of an additional color coded icon floating over the party leader/member's head might help idiot proof it a little bit more.

Though, of course that wouldn't stop punks who join groups and do what they want anyways. :\ To stop that, you really need to be better at finding quality players one way or another.

Nightwish · Oct 11, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

hey coolsti, hope you manage to get all the right team players next time around (though one bad apple can spoil the whole thing like you said :P). All the best!

Kakumei · Oct 11, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

While there are plenty of things I didn't like about Final Fantasy XI, one thing I loved was that you can go in an LFG mode enabling anyone on the server to see a list depending on what region they want to look at and level range. On top of that it would be color coded depending on what you wanted to do (IE: XP Grinding, Quests, Missions, Gil Farming, etc) and you could even add a comment. Obviously, a serverwide LFG player search simply wouldn't be viable for Guild Wars unlike Final Fantasy XI but making group intents more idiot proof by virtue of an additional color coded icon floating over the party leader/member's head might help idiot proof it a little bit more.

hmm

that's an interesting way of doing things

why couldn't something like that be implemented in gw, but have it only be a district-wide thing? even restricted only to a single district, it would help the group-forming process quite a bit

Gwenhywar · Oct 11, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

that was pathetic, two year old stuff. you didn't do EXACTLY what i wanted WHEN i wanted, so i'm not doing anything to help you.
i mean for gods sake. a caster is being chased around by Azures and accidentally runs into the cutscene. you and your friends actions were absolutely pathetic and petty.

I agree ... the OP's behavior was really silly in the 2nd situation he described ... the cutscene starts just a few steps after the entrance into the cave! You behaved like a spoiled 10 year old.

There is a fine line between making an organized group with a common aim and agreed strategy, and simply being disrespectful towards others, their playing styles - and possible mistakes.

Sanji · Oct 12, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

hmm

that's an interesting way of doing things

why couldn't something like that be implemented in gw, but have it only be a district-wide thing? even restricted only to a single district, it would help the group-forming process quite a bit

I was kind of thinking about something like that. Though instead of splitting it up in districts according to purpose, I would think something like a Zone-wide LFG channel that you can toggle in a pop up window (so not to be flooded by the default chat window noise) might be good.

For example, say you're in Droknar's. In Droknar's there could be a channel you could specifically join that connects you with people who want to join groups for the same thing. So there'd be the "Droknar's Looking for Mission" channel or the "Droknar's Looking for Exploration" channel.

It may be superflous for Mission zones depending on their population, but the idea would be you could talk to everyone without being restricted by district, and if you find someone who you want to join, you would have the option to join their district then join their group. It could very well ease the everyone has to try to cram into district 1 to get something accomplished syndrome.

Of course, I don't know how much more bandwidth that would eat up, so it may not be a viable option.

Saerden · Oct 12, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Every situation was handled perfectly fine. The second one could have been a mistake, but since noone apologized or something, it was acceptable.

While i dont like wasting time on fighting mobs (if i want bloodshed, i take henches ... ) while PUGing, you have the right to play as you wish. Next time you get a runner, i suggest getting him killed, then going afk right next to the portal for 30mins or so

coolsti · Oct 12, 2005, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mm00re

wow can't wait to see your reaction when you get to thunderhead keep

Heh heh, been there with my first two characters. After several failed attempts with full parties of pugs, I did it with 4 pugs + 4 henchies in a group that I formed. Then I did it with my second character with henchies only. Should be trying it tonight with my third character with 2-3 friends. Will we take pugs to fill out the group? Depends on whether we want to be amused and entertained (all human group) or whether we wish to get the mission completed.

A good trick for increasing your chances for having a good group for thunderhead keep is to form your own party by taking the two henchy monks plus one other henchy, and then fill up the group with pugs from there. The fact that you have henchies in the group, and in particular the henchy monks, will filter out most of the pugs that wouldn't work together as a team. As soon as a bad apple joins the group and notices the henchies, he/she will either leave or complain loudly, in which case you kick them.

Sister Rosette · Oct 12, 2005, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Your elitism is nauseating.

I can't wait until you get to Hell's Precipice and your 'I think he's a
noob kick him' antics won't work anymore.

coolsti · Oct 12, 2005, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

Your elitism is nauseating.

I can't wait until you get to Hell's Precipice and your 'I think he's a
noob kick him' antics won't work anymore.

Elitist? Me? Perhaps you shouldn't read more into what I wrote than what I actually wrote. I never called anyone a NOOB in this game, ever. I never will. I am not an elitist nor a snob, and will try my best never to act like one.

Up to now, when forming a group, I haven't used the tactic of requesting that players whisper to me first. Perhaps I should, but I haven't until now. So if I let someone into the group and the person starts to act in a manner that does not fit in with the rest of the group, I don't just kick them. I try to see first what the person is all about. For example, if while waiting for someone to adjust skills or discussing some strategy a player begins to message stuff like "GOGOGOGOGO", I will respond with something like "if you are really in a hurry then I suggest you leave the group and find a new one". What I meant from my above post is simply that if a person really acts like a "bad apple" compared to the rest of the group, I will kick him/her. Better that than having a team that cannot or will not function smoothly together.

So far, I haven't kicked anyone from a party I was forming. I wouldn't kick someone without good reason and without letting them know why I was doing it. But if I had good reason to, I would. Am I being elitist here? All I want is a good functioning party that is going to have fun together and enjoy the mission or quest. I think I have a right to not have to play with players who have an attitude like "screw you, you don't know me, I don't care about you and I do what I like".

BTW, I've been to Hell's Precipice with two other characters. What's the big issue with that?